When you finish a book and want to start another but you think the one you just finished deserves a moment of silence
Regarding Trystane being cast as Doran's "son and heir": I know you've mentioned that we need to be prepared for a lot of cuts for Feast/Dance. D&D know how it all ends, so they know what to cut. I love Arianne and Quentyn, but I honestly can't think of a reason that they are absolutely necessary to the overall story. I can't think of anything they've done that can't be shifted to another character on screen. It's been a while since I read Feast/Dance, so what are your thoughts on this?
IDK man, IDK. I mean, with regards to Trystane being written up as Doran’s “son and heir” (of a shyness that is criminally vulgar), PR is not canon, so there’s that. And Arianne could still come later, so there’s that too — keep in mind Doran wasn’t listed on the original casting sheet either.
So. I suppose you’re right that Arianne could be excised without doing much violence to the story, but I think that’s way less true of her than it is of Quentyn, the Vito Spatafore of Game of Thrones. If you cut Arianne you needs must make up a whole lot of Dornish stuff to replace it, presumably by beefing up Myrcella. As a substitution, that’s not exactly the disaster it’s being made out to be, I guess? I dunno, it’s a bummer, even though I think Arianne’s awesomeness has been greatly exaggerated in terms of presenting her as some kind of role model. Cool character, not so cool a role model. IDK, IDK.
This is not, in any way, a way I like to interact with art, I can tell you that much. I want to talk about a show, not an idea of a show months before the show airs.
If they cut out Arianne, I am done with this show. Arianne is my favorite character but well, she’s a strong female character so I guess it stands to reason that D&D will ruin her character.
Arianne is a strong female character if you’re using “strong” synonymously with “interesting” or “compelling,” but not so much if you’re using it in the traditional sense of someone who’s fully actualized their potentiality or what have you. Arianne fucked a Kingsguard into betraying his vows in order to support her harebrained scheme to kidnap Myrcella Baratheon and crown her Queen of Westeros with the help of her posse of people she’d gone to third base with as a teenager, which got Myrcella maimed and the Kingsguard killed and damn near plunged Dorne into war. She reminds me a great deal of Bran or Sansa circa A Game of Thrones — she’s read about the kind of person she wants to be in storybooks, albeit racier ones than Bran’s adventures or Sansa’s romances, and is unprepared when life doesn’t turn out that way. Like them, she may recover, but that remains to be seen.
Arianne’s a lot of fun to read about — to me, that’s enough, and there’s no need to make her into something she isn’t, and then ding “D&D,” those world-historical villains, for fucking up that nonexistent thing.
Don’t make me fucking laugh. Arys Oakheart is a grown-ass man and HE is the one who is all “DO IT FOR THE VINE” and gets his head lopped off when Arianne is the one telling him to stop. Blaming a “seductress” for a man’s dumb actions is shitty x 10 and also shows a basic lack of understanding of either of those characters.
"Strong" =/= completely and virtuous. If the only strong characters were the saints who get everything right, there would be none in ASOIAF. I see you and your double standards.
It’s funny how ASOIAF/GoT fans are only bothered with role models when it deals with the erasure of a woman of color. Guess what, most of your boy faves on the show are bad role models yet you would throw a fit if d&d just left them out). GRRM is infamous for his morally grey and/or flawed characters. One can argue that fatal flaws are his thing (Robb and Ned being honor, Tywin’s being how he treats his children) But nobody condemns their dude faves for their fuckups. For example, Theon also makes mistakes, tries to go through with a flawed plan, and pays dearly and unfairly for them. but GODS FORBID a well-meaning and ambitious Arianne formulates a plan that doesn’t work out and causes pain for herself and her friends. Arianne’s support of Myrcella and her good intentions are my favorite part about her.
Women of color in fiction do not have to be flaw-free to be role models in any light. Characters are allowed to be complex and still have traits worth looking up to. GUESS WHAT, white people aren’t the only ones allowed to be multifaceted. Arianne is a strong POV character who is a woman of color and given agency in her narrative. Don’t go kissing Jaime Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, and Stannis Baratheon’s asses if you can’t accept the complexities of other characters, especially the women of color. Fuck, Tyrion’s arc is all about him becoming a worse person in the face of adversity, yet everyone and their dog has such an annoying fanboner for him. Does this mean you codemn Quentyn for trying to tame Viserion and failing? Because last I checked, that’s not a role model status thing to do. I love my Martell children but let’s be real “u tried” is a common theme here.
I agree with all of this, obviously. It’s not about taking sides, people!